Tuesday, December 25, 2018

How God Not Dwelling In Man-Made Temples Poses A Problem For Roman Catholic Eucharist Theology

  • Discussion:
           -The Roman Catholic Church maintains that its priests transubstantiate ordinary bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Yet, we are told in the New Testament that the Lord does not dwell in places made by human hands:

           "However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as the prophet says: ‘Heaven is My throne, and earth is the footstool of My feet; what kind of house will you build for Me?’ says the Lord, ‘Or what place is there for My repose?" (Acts 7:48-49)

           "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things." (Acts 17:24-25)

           Bread cannot be turned into God in the sense as is claimed of the eucharist by Catholics. If God does not dwell in temples, then the communion wafer cannot be turned into God. He is simply not made present at the words of consecration by the parish priest.

          Neither is He served with things made by human hands. We are told in the New Testament that we ought not think of deity as being a material object:

          "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man." (Acts 17:29)

           Is not the Eucharist wafer manna, which is material? The bread and wine used in the Mass is not Jesus Christ, but an image of Himself. God the Son ascended into heaven above, not into temples made with human hands:

           "For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." (Hebrews 9:24)

5 comments:

  1. “Therefore, the Eucharist is just an ordinary peace of bread and priests do not have the power to transubstantiate the communion elements. Bread cannot be turned into God in the sense as is claimed of the Eucharist. If God does not dwell in man-made places, then the communion wafer cannot be turned into God. ”

    The Eucharist is not and ordinary piece of bread.

    The priests do not have the power to transubstantiate the communion elements–it is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    The bread is not man-made to be a dwelling place for God. It is made for us to eat.

    Besides, do you not know your body, (born of the union of created man and woman–in other words man-made), is a temple? 1 Cor 6:19

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  2. "The Eucharist is not and ordinary piece of bread."

    It is an ordinary piece of bread because, according to my argument, He does not dwell in temples made by human hands. There is no change in the communion elements in the way alleged by Rome.

    "The priests do not have the power to transubstantiate the communion elements–it is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit."

    I never said that the Roman Catholic Church taught that its priests had power in of themselves to do anything. Rather, they were powerless by virtue of God not dwelling in places made by human hands. Their act of consecration is null and void.

    "The bread is not man-made to be a dwelling place for God. It is made for us to eat."

    Those are your words, not mine. I never hinted that the bread is a "dwelling place for God."

    God is not to be likened to creations of man. How is it rightful to worship the eucharist, which looks like a bread wafer, as Him? God never once commanded anyone to do that.

    "Besides, do you not know your body, (born of the union of created man and woman–in other words man-made), is a temple? 1 Cor 6:19"

    No, we are not literal temples. That is a figure of speech meaning the Holy Spirit dwells amongst brethren in Christ.

    Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands. So there is no reason to suppose that He is going to come down from heaven on a daily basis to be a sacrifice for sin. He already did all that at Calvary roughly two thousand years ago.

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  3. Jessie–
    Christ is omnipresent. There is no place He cannot dwell. One cannot capture and confine God in any one place, therefore; one will not find God in only one place such as a temple made with human hands. That is common sense.
    You said “I never hinted that the bread is a "dwelling place for God.” But you did say “It is an ordinary piece of bread because, according to my argument, He does not dwell in temples made by human hands.” So, I can assume you are equating the bread as a temple made by human hands. And so I stand by my statement that the bread is not man-made to be a dwelling place for God. It is made for us to eat.

    Yes, I get it. It’s a hard concept and you refuse to accept it. Clearly it hasn’t been given to you by the Father. (John 6:60,65,66)

    Adios! (Mat 10:14)

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  4. Kyle,

    "Christ is omnipresent. There is no place He cannot dwell. One cannot capture and confine God in any one place, therefore; one will not find God in only one place such as a temple made with human hands. That is common sense."

    Jesus Christ is omnipresent in His divinity. You cannot physically consume that because divinity is not a tangible object and your finite body cannot contain that which is infinite. That is why it is absurd for you to claim to physically consume Him in His entirety ("body, blood, soul and divinity") to begin with. It is a blatant violation of common sense to believe that Jesus Christ could be present in the flesh in multiple places at the same time.

    "So, I can assume you are equating the bread as a temple made by human hands. And so I stand by my statement that the bread is not man-made to be a dwelling place for God. It is made for us to eat."

    No, you cannot put words in other people's mouths or insist whatever you have to say is what they meant when it is in fact not. You know perfectly well doing such is not going to bring about any edification. So why do it? The "Jesus" that you claim to eat is not really Jesus. Roman Catholic theology does not simply affirm Christ's presence in the bread, but that the bread actually becomes His body under unchanged substance and accidents. It wholly ceases to be what it originally was.

    "Yes, I get it. It’s a hard concept and you refuse to accept it. Clearly it hasn’t been given to you by the Father. (John 6:60,65,66)"

    You do not get anything at all. You are not able to properly analyze critiques of the position that you hold. If God in some mysterious way is said to not "dwell" in temples, then it is only fair to infer that He is not "coming down" from His throne in the heavenlies at the command of some priest. I find it ironic that you interpret the teaching of Jesus Christ in the Bread of Life Discourse in the same way as did the unbelieving Jews who abandoned Him upon hearing His message.

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  5. I'm still trying to get a Papist to explain how the bread and wine could be literally Jesus' flesh and blood when at the Last Supper Jesus himself taught it figuratively while he ate and drank himself!

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