- Discussion:
-Following are a series of excerpts with responses to them from a debate with Dan Trabue that veered far from the original topic of the article in which they were published. Some points may prove to be useful in discussing the normalization of homosexual behaviors with other people:
"Ah, but WHO is it that is plotting even now to deny the right to marry and other basic rights to LGBTQ people?"
That is not happening anywhere except in the Middle East. No reasonable person has any plans whatsoever to deprive the group of people that you mention of any basic human rights. They are being treated just like everybody else.
"It's conservatives and the religious right. LGBTQ folks are NOT trying to tell straight people who they can and can't marry."
We do not really see heterosexual people parading around the streets of cities in ridiculous and ugly attire exclaiming what they do behind closed doors. We do not see heterosexual people putting symbols of their sexuality on children's cereal boxes during a specific month of each year. Where has your sense of decency and honor gone?
"Who is it who's telling transgender folks which bathrooms they must use? It's conservatives. LGBTQ folks aren't telling conservatives which bathrooms to use."
There are only two genders which are determined by genetics. That people want to be called by something other than what they really are, is no one else's problem but their own. There is no obligation on my part to affirm a man to be a woman or visa versa when all of human history up to this point did not do so.
If this matter is really all that important, then businesses should create unisex, single person restrooms. Problem solved.
"Who is it who's telling gay or lesbian couples that they can't adopt children? It's conservatives. LGBTQ people aren't trying to say that "Southern Baptists can't adopt children!"
Adoption is not a gay rights issue. It is a children's issue.
"LGBTQ people HAVE been oppressed for centuries/throughout history in nations around the world and in the US."
Even if that is true, they are not being persecuted in the West right now. This leads up to a bigger point, namely, the utter futility of trying to negotiate with people who have anger issues and entitlement problems. They are never happy no matter what you do for them, always demanding more.
"They just want to live their lives in peace and without oppression."
Dissidents just want to live their lives in peace and without fear of their children being sexualized by predators.
"Would you return to the days of criminalized homosexuality if you could?"
This question is a meaningless hypothetical.
"Would you deny the right of gay guys/lesbian women to marry who they want?"
Do people really have the right to marry whoever or whatever they want without exception? Can adults marry children or relatives if they so desire? Can adults marry plants, animals, or rocks if they so choose? Is desire the only factor used in considering a potential spouse?
"It's conservatives and the religious right. LGBTQ folks are NOT trying to tell straight people who they can and can't marry."
We do not really see heterosexual people parading around the streets of cities in ridiculous and ugly attire exclaiming what they do behind closed doors. We do not see heterosexual people putting symbols of their sexuality on children's cereal boxes during a specific month of each year. Where has your sense of decency and honor gone?
"Who is it who's telling transgender folks which bathrooms they must use? It's conservatives. LGBTQ folks aren't telling conservatives which bathrooms to use."
There are only two genders which are determined by genetics. That people want to be called by something other than what they really are, is no one else's problem but their own. There is no obligation on my part to affirm a man to be a woman or visa versa when all of human history up to this point did not do so.
If this matter is really all that important, then businesses should create unisex, single person restrooms. Problem solved.
"Who is it who's telling gay or lesbian couples that they can't adopt children? It's conservatives. LGBTQ people aren't trying to say that "Southern Baptists can't adopt children!"
Adoption is not a gay rights issue. It is a children's issue.
"LGBTQ people HAVE been oppressed for centuries/throughout history in nations around the world and in the US."
Even if that is true, they are not being persecuted in the West right now. This leads up to a bigger point, namely, the utter futility of trying to negotiate with people who have anger issues and entitlement problems. They are never happy no matter what you do for them, always demanding more.
"They just want to live their lives in peace and without oppression."
Dissidents just want to live their lives in peace and without fear of their children being sexualized by predators.
"Would you return to the days of criminalized homosexuality if you could?"
This question is a meaningless hypothetical.
"Would you deny the right of gay guys/lesbian women to marry who they want?"
Do people really have the right to marry whoever or whatever they want without exception? Can adults marry children or relatives if they so desire? Can adults marry plants, animals, or rocks if they so choose? Is desire the only factor used in considering a potential spouse?
"The Supreme Court conservatives may do so."
Homosexuals already had "rights" long before the Obergefell v. Hodges decision of 2015. So, it is not likely that anything will change in the foreseeable future.
"Conservative" ideas are what built up Western civilization. They have withstood the test of time. Further, bad ideas do not improve just because more people embrace them. Wrong is still wrong, even if everyone believes it.
"That's illegal discrimination and rightfully so. So, too, for gay customers. You don't have to like it, but discrimination based on gender, race and sexual orientation is illegal in our nation."
This is an invalid comparison. Skin color and gender are not behavioral characteristics as is homosexuality and lesbianism. They have nothing to do with each other. It is ironic that these people demand acceptance and toleration, while at the same time not extending the same treatment toward those who disagree with them.
It is not a false claim when children's libraries contain books with pornographic content. It is not a false claim when there are outraged parents engaging in protests about the existence of such.
"Are you saying that people who take the time to teach children are "targeting them" for propaganda?"
Not exactly. It depends on the content and quality of instruction.
"Or, when conservatives do it, they're just being helpful, but when liberals do it they're targeting and grooming children?? You see the problem with that, don't you?"
The problem is that children are basically being taught how to have sex. They should be being taught things like mathematics, grammar, and science. Children should not be being sexualized. That is what pedophiles do. Children have no real understanding of how the world works. Moreover, people have grown up to have sex for thousands of years without any instruction as to how it is done. They just procreated.
"And if you find my positions weird And tomorrow, perhaps you can understand how I also find your positions weird and immoral. As well as unbiblical, ungodly and irrational."
Why would you defend exposing children to drag queen story hour? Even their attire is a symbol of sexuality. Why cannot people be dressed in normal, modest clothing and read stories that are actually wholesome and educational?
"After all I'm not trying to be objective, I'm saying that gay folks committing to one another in a loving respectful marriage is obviously, on the face of it, a good thing. How's that bad?"
That is not how God designed things to be. There does not have to be some other reason than that He has given us a moral standard to abide by.