"If any one...denies that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema." (Council of Trent, Thirteen Session, Canon 2)
The above cited excerpt states that the appearance of the bread and wine remains the same, despite the substance being mysteriously transformed into the literal fullness of Christ's flesh, blood, soul, and divinity by the priest. Only the substance of the consecrated elements are changed by the priest. Therefore, the dogma of transubstantiation involves a miracle that cannot be detected by our five senses.
Eucharistic miracles are said to be observable to the people who are present at the mass. This is a problem for the Roman Catholic position because according to official church dogma, the appearance of the transubstantiated elements remains completely unchanged. These allegedly supernatural occasions do not fit the Roman Catholic definition of transubstantiation.
If the body and blood of Jesus Christ appear to be bread and wine after this "miraculous" change takes place, then people who claim to see flesh or taste blood cannot use such episodes to support the idea of transubstantiation. Catholic dogma is contradicted by eucharistic miracles. Since transubstantiation is touted as a miracle, does that mean eucharistic miracles involve the undoing of something already miraculous?
HAH!!! Excellent point!!!
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ReplyDeleteOne should distinguish here between the invisible miracle of Transubstantiation, which occurs when the formula of consecration is recited at Mass, and a visible Eucharistic miracle, which can only happens to an already consecrated host.
ReplyDeleteThe real difficulty to the concept of a visible Eucharistic miracle is that the bread (or wine) accidents are a precondition of the Real Presence, since Christ's presence can only occur under the species of bread and wine. If the accidents of bread change in such a way that they become for example accidents of human tissue (as is claimed for some Eucharistic miracles), then at least the Real Presence has ceased in the same way as if the host had been consumed in communion, and this would render the miracle senseless. But this is only true if the entire host has turned into human tissue. If the change is partial, however, and some parts of the host show the accidents of human tissue while other parts still show the accidents of bread, then the Real Presence remains under the parts which weren't visibly changed.
It is also possible that the accidents of bread remain intact and are only spatially reconfigurated on a level beyond our sensory perception, so as to create the impression of human tissue. Just as normal bread can be baked in the figure of a child or a human heart without being changed into these things, so the accidents of the Eucharist can be spatially refigurated into the appearance of human tissue, or something else, while still remaining accidents of bread.
Ronald,
DeleteShow me from Scripture where miracles are invisible.
Show me from Scripture where Jesus told the Apostles to say "hocus locus" over the bread and wine to make it an invisible miracle of becoming true flesh and blood. This is nothing but heretical superstition.
Oh, and show me from Scripture where "Christ's presence can only occur under the species of bread and wine. -- I CAN show you from Scripture where Christ's presence took place in front of many people!
If the Last Supper was in actuality a Mass as claimed by Rome, then how could Jesus be sitting there with the elements at the same time saying the elements were his body and blood? Do you think the disciples understood Jesus to be speaking literally, since the Law prohibited the eating of blood? And if the human body of Christ is located in heaven at the Father’s right hand, how can it be at the same time in millions of places in Masses all over the world? Isn’t it more likely that Jesus was using the bread and wine figuratively so as to provide Christians with symbols to celebrate with as a memorial?
Rome also claims that in the Eucharist Christ is sacrificed to God, and that the Last Supper was in itself a Mass. If the Last Supper was indeed a sacrifice of Christ, then we have an illogical situation of Christ sacrificing himself before he was sacrificed on the cross. Additionally, if each Mass is a sacrifice of Christ, then we have a direct contradiction of the Bible which says that Christ was sacrificed once for all time, and that this eliminated the need for continual sacrifices.
It takes a great deal of a lack of common sense to belief in the papist's teaching of transubstantiation.
Hey Jesse,
ReplyDeleteYou make an interesting point in your article. But I can see how some Catholics would respond as Ronald did with weird, high-sounding and convoluted reasoning. I fully expect them to say that the “change” in the elements in Mass would be “distinguished, and different from,” the Eucharistic miracles like “bleeding hosts,” etc. Very predictable of them.
But hopefully, your point will make them think a little deeper.
Keep up the good work!
Ronald Sevenster,
ReplyDelete"One should distinguish here between the invisible miracle of Transubstantiation, which occurs when the formula of consecration is recited at Mass, and a visible Eucharistic miracle, which can only happens to an already consecrated host."
Why should such a distinction be made other than to avoid what is obviously a problem for Roman Catholic teaching on the nature of the communion elements? Both the visible and invisible "miracles" are inextricably associated with each other.
"If the accidents of bread change in such a way that they become for example accidents of human tissue (as is claimed for some Eucharistic miracles), then at least the Real Presence has ceased in the same way as if the host had been consumed in communion, and this would render the miracle senseless."
So, we are talking about an alleged "miracle" (i.e. transubstantiation) being undone by another "miracle" (i.e. eucharistic miracles). That truly is an awkward position to entertain.
"But this is only true if the entire host has turned into human tissue. If the change is partial, however, and some parts of the host show the accidents of human tissue while other parts still show the accidents of bread, then the Real Presence remains under the parts which weren't visibly changed."
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the entire body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ is consumed during the Mass. Transubstantiation means that His body and blood are not visible upon the bread and wine being changed by the priest, yet eucharistic miracles have the opposite effect. You still have not actually addressed my argument.
"It is also possible that the accidents of bread remain intact and are only spatially reconfigurated on a level beyond our sensory perception, so as to create the impression of human tissue."
It is possible that the moon is made out of cheese and "only spatially reconfigured on a level beyond our sensory perception" so as to give us the impression of it having a rocky appearance. This kind of philosophical speculation is wholly unworthy of consideration by a Christian.